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Post by plateauphase on Sept 25, 2008 1:47:43 GMT -5
Ironically, it's probably much, much easier -- and cheaper -- to design, manufacture and sell an all-analog polysynth like the Prophet 08. The technology and knowledge that went into the Vox Continental is 40 years old now and, in many cases, almost impossible to get. While I'm sure it would be possible to re-engineer a combo organ using current analog components and with available technical knowledge and manufacturing techniques, it would also be astronomically expensive. You wouldn't be talking about sales of 1000 $2000 organs, but 200 $5000 organs -- and the company would thereby go bankrupt. [Think about it -- even if your company sold 1000 $2000 organs, that would amount to revenues in the neighbourhood of $700,000, which wouldn't even cover the payroll, let alone R&D and manufacturing!] And the sad truth is that there's no guarantee that an analog organ built with current components would even sound anything like the organs of the 60s/70s!
Personally, I really do expect Yamakorgland to resurrect the combo organ. It will be a bit deeper than a current clonewheel, it will come with an optional stand, it will be brightly coloured and it will be digital because that's the only way they can make something with sufficient wholesale and retail margins to make it commercially viable.
And you know what? I WANT it to be digital. I really don't give a d**n for the "authenticity" of the instrument. I want an affordable, reliable, great sounding, reasonably good looking organ that weighs no more than a Roland Juno-G.
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Franz
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Post by Franz on Sept 25, 2008 2:31:50 GMT -5
I see your point, Mr. Phase. And essentially, I'm suggesting it be an analog poly. And like I said, a modern analog poly (the prophet 08) can weigh less than 35 pounds.
I am not really a purist. I have several digital keyboards, and enjoy a sampled Wurly, or piano. However...
I have never, ever, ever heard a combo sampled well. EVER. I tried the Nord Stage, I tried several Roland keyboards, I tried my E-mu, and I even tried to sample my Farfisa myself. It always sounds weak and lifeless. Close, but not great. But the best I've heard is a Prophet 08 through a real tube amp. (If you try a sampled combo through a tube amp, it hurts the ears.) And the real test is, can you hear it over drummer?
Sadly, Yamakorgland does everything on the cheap, and so it will be digital...
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Post by plateauphase on Sept 25, 2008 8:27:49 GMT -5
Yamakorgland is a business; they go where the money is.
While I agree that straight sampling isn't the answer, I think there are ways to emulate combos that can get pretty close. I was messing around with the patch editor in my Fantom and the feature that simulates oscillator drift, for example, is pretty convincing. My gut feeling is that if the sound designers at Yamakorgland sat down and really worked on it, they could come up with a dozen excellent combo organ patches.
You see, I'm not convinced that digital is a bad word. Digital technologies offer some advantages over analog that are hard to ignore.
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Franz
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Post by Franz on Sept 25, 2008 22:14:43 GMT -5
If it pleases my ears, I'll buy it. End of story.
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Post by plateauphase on Sept 27, 2008 9:15:54 GMT -5
If it pleases my ears, I'll buy it. End of story. I agree with the sentiment, and sound is definitely my first concern, cost, reliability and cosmetics are up there. Cost: Must be less than $1000 for me to be interested. Reliability: I want a maintenance-free combo. I'm sick of trying to figure out why I only get organ tones on SOME of the bass keys of my jaguar with the bass chords tab on. Cosmetics: It can be black, orange, blue, whatever, but I'd like it to look nice, with some flat-top real estate. The point is that I don't think a combo should be just another board in the rig. |
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Franz
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Post by Franz on Oct 1, 2008 18:09:46 GMT -5
I would never purchase a Nord C1 simply to try it. However, one turned up at a local Sam Ash. And I had the chance to play with it for ten minutes. I would have played with it more, but it was situated right in front of the check out desk, and there were two dudes sitting there, three feet away, staring at me.
I hope no will get upset with me for a quick review of the Nord C1. But considering the topic is "new combo organ" and that's sort of what this is, I'll proceed.
Anyways, I have to say, of all the samples or emulations I've ever heard of a vox or farfisa, this one did the best job. And the lcd "drawbars" did a decent job of replicating the tab changes (for the farfisa). The bass manual only had two stops, though. The distortion, delay, EQ, and rotary effects are all very cool. Also missing in the farfisa emulation was the "percussion" harpsichord type sounds found on the Compact Deluxe (I think). There IS a switch for percussion, but you can only use it with the B3 sounds. Bummer!
You won't be surprised to hear, however, that the sound doesn't have that full, fat, warm feel of a real combo. Its good, but not that good. I also think the second manual was a little overboard, and raises the cost of the instrument too much. If there were to be two manuals, they should've made them four octaves each. Also, the second manual doesn't seem to be that flexible for assigning sounds (though I only spent a small amount of time with it).
Finally, the cost is excrutiatingly high. If they had built the vox and farfisa sounds into the Nord Electro, I'd probably have gotten one. Interestingly, for the same money as the C1, you can get the Nord Stage Compact (73 key), which features B3, combo, electric piano, clav, acoustic piano, and a synth all in one. Still, that's way way way more than I can afford. Unless I sell everything I own.
Guess I'll have to stick to the real thing.
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Post by plateauphase on Oct 17, 2008 22:13:56 GMT -5
'Sfunny... I remember playing a C1 at GC in NYC, and I thought that it would sound really good through a tube pre-amp (into a board) or through a tube amp. Is there any onboard amp modeling on the C1?
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Post by karl on Oct 20, 2008 9:22:45 GMT -5
Hi plateauphase,
I have a electro 73, It does not have the combo samples in it but it does have a nice sounding overdrive. I understand the C1 uses the same feature. On the modeled B3, it sounds fantastic and this beast is quickly becoming my favorite keyboard. You can change the piano samples in it from others on Nord's Website.
I am hoping they will allow the combo samples to be used at some future point.
And tell those guys at GC, if you want me to buy this thing I need to take it home for awhile! ;D
Karl
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Post by plateauphase on Oct 20, 2008 21:38:34 GMT -5
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Post by karl on Oct 22, 2008 17:09:07 GMT -5
Well, I know you can never get them to just let you take something home for awhile. But I have to say they lent me the store demo of the Elctro 73 while I was waiting for my new one to come in. I though that was pretty cool of GC.
Karl
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Post by voxinental85 on Oct 30, 2008 17:32:57 GMT -5
my ideal:
modern reliability, vintage appearance, and electronics as modern as you can get them without it becoming as unreliable or unstable as the originals.
basically, id be after a farfisa compact with the reliability, weight and ease of function of a new Roland; a cosmetic dead ringer for the original, but thinner, lighter, and modern. id shell out pretty good money for that.
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